I FOUND JEFFERSON STARSHIP INFAMOUS CONCERT!!!

[oldblue]

while it's probably beyond question that people experience visions for any number of reasons, the fact that any given individual at a specific time has had a vision is questionable. why? because there simply is no proof upon which to base a judgement on the matter. our power of reason behooves us to ask questions about the event. but in the end one simply must take the claimant at his or her word and that is a decision left up to the individual. it's a matter of faith if you will.

[Susan Butcher]

That's reasonable, OB. What irritates me are the types who think that a vision must necessarily be a delusion, and a dream is just a meaningless jumble of memory fragments. It's hard to prove otherwise, I know, but come on, I can't even prove that I'm self-aware, but I am, honestly!

[redrabid]

A vision may be of great personal value and meaning to the person who has had one, but it is not a proof of existence of whatever that person saw or experienced.

[Susan Butcher]

True, objective proof isn't possible. Even the most accurate dream about an unlikely future event that actually happens to the dreamer could be dismissed as a coincidence. But it might well be enough proof for the person themselves. I think that because subjective experience is difficult for science to investigate, it's considered relatively unimportant. It shouldn't be.

It's healthy to see the light at the end of the tunnel, JB. But you can waste a lot of time thinking about it afterwards

[redrabid]

That famous phenomenon, the light at the end of the tunnel, is also seen by starfighter pilots, when they loose consciousness while spinning round in G-force training. It is the mind shutting down. So much for near-death-experiences.

[okeedoe]

I agree,objective proof isn't possible for now.But what about occasional dreaming of future events that actually happens.Some people do have at times an accurate dreams about future events.In fact I myself have had a two dreams in explicit symbols of the future horrifying events in my personal life that later really happened. Could that be dismissed as a coincidence?Such things happens too often to be undervalued or disregarded.
Proofs also can be unreliable.A proof taken to be a contemporary valid scientific axiom might be dismissed in the future as a nonsense.It has been proved a numerous of times by now.

[Susan Butcher]

The "automatic pilot" may be the mind's healing system. Stan Grof calls it the "holotropic" state.

(If the "light" is the mind shutting down, then I expect something similar happens in the process of dying. Hard to say. I do know If you can get your mind to shut down while you're still conscious, there's an experience of emptyness that's really interesting.)

[okeedoe]

Tis interesting.I must read about it.Thanks,Sue.

[usedtobebabson]

It's because we think we are moving toward the future everyday when we wake from a dream. Not true. The future is guiding us to IT

[Susan Butcher]

Sometimes it feels like that's what's happening.

[GoAskAlice76]

Thanks for sharing. I've been wanting to hear this for sometime. Now if the video would turn up...

[Princess Aiko]

The real question is where Hamburgers come from
Anyone have a link to Nassau Colisseum (sic) 78, THAT was a great show