Sunfighter

[plasticfantastic]

the media whoring predates the yippies

Most definitely. And as Susan said, it postdates them as well. I don't know if "postdates" is a word, but it should be...

I do agree with you, Susan. It certainly does seem silly. I think that media exposure has a lot of power, and that it can get things done in a lot of cases, but even so, it seems rather purposeless without a concrete cause, and the Yippies certainly did not have one.

[oldblue]

the media whoring predates the yippies

Most definitely. And as Susan said, it postdates them as well. I don't know if "postdates" is a word, but it should be...

I do agree with you, Susan. It certainly does seem silly. I think that media exposure has a lot of power, and that it can get things done in a lot of cases, but even so, it seems rather purposeless without a concrete cause, and the Yippies certainly did not have one.

having a cause is playing their game. living a life is being free.

[redrabid]

But how can you live free, while others are living in chains?

[CookOfTheHouse]

But how can you live free, while others are living in chains?

Now that's a whole new subject, redrabit, and I think it's a political debate, on one hand, people who think a little bit like you, we can't be happy/free unless everyone else is happy too and by the other hand, people who think like me, everyone is responsible for their own happiness, if I achieve it and someone else doesn't, it's his problem, I can't stop moving forward and growing just because someone else isn't. We all are born with the same "tools", it's up to us to use 'em so I do think I can be free and happy while others are living in chains.

[oldblue]

But how can you live free, while others are living in chains?

we do it everyday. doesn't make it right. you have to blind yourself to a great deal of the madness to be able to function. it's all just too horrible.

tell me what to do to make everything right and i'll do it.

Ah, my friends from the prison, they ask unto me
“How good, how good does it feel to be free?”
And I answer them most mysteriously
“Are birds free from the chains of the skyway?”

—Bob Dylan

[oldblue]

But how can you live free, while others are living in chains?

Now that's a whole new subject, redrabit, and I think it's a political debate, on one hand, people who think a little bit like you, we can't be happy/free unless everyone else is happy too and by the other hand, people who think like me, everyone is responsible for their own happiness, if I achieve it and someone else doesn't, it's his problem, I can't stop moving forward and growing just because someone else isn't. We all are born with the same "tools", it's up to us to use 'em so I do think I can be free and happy while others are living in chains.

um no we are not all born with the same tools. and he's not talking about metaphoric chains

[oldblue]

i'm proud to be an okie from muskogee

We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee;
We don't take our trips on LSD
We don't burn our draft cards down on Main Street;
We like livin' right, and bein' free.

I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee,
A place where even squares can have a ball
We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse,
And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all

We don't make a party out of lovin';
We like holdin' hands and pitchin' woo;
We don't let our hair grow long and shaggy,
Like the hippies out in San Francisco do.

And I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee,
A place where even squares can have a ball.
We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse,
And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all.

Leather boots are still in style for manly footwear;
Beads and Roman sandals won't be seen.
Football's still the roughest thing on campus,
And the kids here still respect the college dean.

We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse,
In Muskogee, Oklahoma, USA.

[Susan Butcher]

(Don't close the door on me yet, Deputy Dog!)

Helping other people is the greatest thing we can do. But you have to have strength to spare to do it. If all you can do is keep your own life together, that's not a reason to be ashamed.

A lady from World Vision knocked on my door yesterday, showed me a picture of a cute kid in Pakistan who can't afford to go to school, and asked for my money. I thought, and I wished I'd said, "Bugger off, I've got a middle-aged paranoid schizophrenic to care for!" That's all I can carry at the moment.

[redrabid]

I didn't intend to start a new discussion with my question. Everyone has his own answer. My question came up, because I find OB's dismissal of "having a cause" far too easy. It might be more clarifying to ask why people like Diana felt a need for "having a cause".
In reaction to "Okie" I could cite "Rednecks" by Randy Newman or some lyrics by Frank Zappa, but I'll say only that I find it very amusing that people, who are waving the flag of Freedom so enthousistically, seem to have such restrictive views on how other people should behave.
Alright then: "We're rednecks, we're rednecks
we don't know our ass from a hole in the ground".

But you couldn't bring yourself to say that, did you Susan?
In some situations it is not difficult to help others and to ease your conscience: It costs you only a few dollars.

[Susan Butcher]

It's funny that charities never ask for money to help middled-aged mental cases. I'd give them money then, as long as they didn't want my name, address, and bank account number. (Even street collectors ask for this now!) No, cute children rake in the dollars. What about the old, the ugly, and the unloved? This game just makes me angry.

Enough said.

[oldblue]

I didn't intend to start a new discussion with my question. Everyone has his own answer. My question came up, because I find OB's dismissal of "having a cause" far too easy. It might be more clarifying to ask why people like Diana felt a need for "having a cause".
In reaction to "Okie" I could cite "Rednecks" by Randy Newman or some lyrics by Frank Zappa, but I'll say only that I find it very amusing that people, who are waving the flag of Freedom so enthousistically, seem to have such restrictive views on how other people should behave.
Alright then: "We're rednecks, we're rednecks
we don't know our ass from a hole in the ground".

doesn't that hold true in the opposite political direction as well? such intolerance. denying someone their dignity is not the way.

i think it's easier to have a cause than to live a life fully and honestly. be a life actor. read some emerson.

[redrabid]

Indeed, When I only think of those stormy discussions with mao-ists in the 70s....

[Susan Butcher]

And in my case, smug teenage Baptists who think they have the answer to everything... It must be wonderful to know that you're right and everyone else is wrong. You just have to ditch all your critical faculties.

[usedtobebabson]

I recall the 60s and 70s with 4 different factions. There were the Flower People, or most of us. Non-violent and "Love for fellow humans" is the answer. Then there were 2 groups of Radicals, though the Flower people were radical in a different way (appearance and behavior). There were Radicals that supported the overthrow of the government by violence, like SDS, Panthers, etc. Then there were the "Hair" inspired radicals. They would do student revolts, and bluff. Not saying what they would do if their demands were not met, which would have been nothing, or cry. Kind of a Flower Child Activist. But this could lead to things like Kent State. The 4th group of course, were the Straight People, who still embraced the Establishment. My country, right or wrong type of Patriotism.

My take on it, is that the Flower People were the most intelligent and mature and carried the most weight to win over a Nation in opposition to a war that was a huge blunder.

So with no draft today (so far), we are left with only this to be upset about. America is still invading countries and killing people. It is orchestrated to appease and gain acceptance in the eyes of the US and the World. So do we adopt Paul McCartney's song "Live and Let Die". Seems so. The horrors are kept out of the news. The public is duped. The media and Political Correctness are fanatical. Kill kill kill in the name of God.

The Flower Children never won over half the young people. There will always be a large portion of the young who will flock to war. So Live and Let die is the answer. Do your own thing. But it still bothers me that we invade countries and kill people. I'm not opposed to a good air-strike if absolutely necessary (I like to stay alive), and don't mind a few nuclear armed cruise missiles watching my back while I'm building my fortune. I just hate these damaging staged puppet gov wars, that do so much mental damage to our vets, and our designated enemy of the day.

We have to keep pushing the end of war, starts with yourself, non-violence, love for other humans message, but how? Another revolution of peace, even though the hallucinogens and cannabis are illegal (make them legal).

[JoeD80]

But I still have to say Kantner is the most dispensable one, redrabit, if we are talking about harmonies

Can't say that I agree on that. Paul does some of my favorite vocal work of the Airplane on songs like "In Time", "Crown of Creation", "Won't You Try", "Wooden Ships", and "Martha."