What Do You Guys Know About Vinyl?

[nicktecky]

No, not a challenge from a Digital Techhead or a quiz!

Relying on my UK memory, I seem to recall quite a fuss when compilation/sampler albums were introduced because they ran up to an hour and the vinyl was thinner. Previously the maximum time was about 45', the LPs then became noticeably floppier. AFAIR the industry said this was because they were using a new plastic which gave a cleaner sound, so they could get the grooves closer together. Others accused the companies of just reducing the modulation, which you have to do to isolate the front from the back, thus giving a thinner LP. The term Microgroove came along as well.

I've looked at a few websites and they all seem to be pretty generic, talking about the move from shellac 78s.

I know you undisciplined hippy lot will veer OT at the first opportunity
So also, what is the attraction of the Vinyl Revival? My tired old brain cells remember the relief when CDs came along, and there was no more surface or electronic noise, and you could turn up the volume and actually hear the quiet bits!
I'm not talking about collecting old LP originals, but new stuff being issued now?

[usedtobebabson]

Well you could say vinyl is groovy

I'd be interested, in why I see vinyl turntables making a big comeback. Some of them are very expensive to.

[oldblue]

Well you could say vinyl is groovy

I'd be interested, in why I see vinyl turntables making a big comeback. Some of them are very expensive to.

people believe you get a much warmer sound from lps than CD's. also many people don't like the extra loudness that is added to CD sound. some people also just want to seem cool

[SuperSlick66]

Personally I like vinyls best. I doubt I love them because they are cool but they do have a better feel than CD's, imo. Maybe because it has that retro style to it. Hmm I can't really figure why I like them better. Oh, maybe since I was raised on CD's I want something more. I've never heard any of the new music on vinyl, but I have seen a Lady Gaga record with her face plastered on both sides of the vinyl. It was actually really cool looking. As for the thick and thin vinyls the thicker ones seem to appeal more to me.

[plasticfantastic]

I love vinyl because it's the way the music I love was designed to be heard, and there's a certain attraction in that for me.

Crystal-clear sound is nice too, don't get me wrong, but it always feels more real to me to have a few pops!

[Susan Butcher]

I don't really prefer vinyl, it's just that I have a lot of LPs I bought before CDs came in. With the gas heater on and holiday traffic outside, I don't notice the difference unless the record is a bad pressing or actually damaged. I do like record players for their own sake, and I save nice ones from going into landfill. I've now got too many for any practical purpose.

[usedtobebabson]

When CDs first came out, a lot of folks didn't like the clarity. Sounded tinny. I got used to it though. Only reason I have vinyl, is, well, because I still have about 50 of them from days gone by.

[Susan Butcher]

The Wall of Sound was the idea of audio perfectionist Bear Stanley. Put giant amps behind the musicians, and you won't need the compromises and complications of a PA system and foldback. Too expensive, though. Such are the problems when a group becomes so insanely popular it can't play anywhere smaller than a sports arena.

By the way, are any of you sound technicians? I worked in radio for a while. I didn't like the job much, but the training was useful. I've got some idea of how music is recorded, anyway.

[okeedoe]

I believe there are small people living in the radio sets.

[nicktecky]

CDs tinny?
Yes, even now my wife prefers to listen to LPs on her teenage portable player. It is the sound of her youth. Similarly if you are a fan who could only listen to AM radio, it is the change that makes the enhanced performance of the CD uncomfortable.
SB - I was a technician since 1972 working in TV studios. So I've seen all the changes going from 2" quadraplex VTR to the 10GB Ethernet server farms of today. I'm a little discomforted talking about the extreme high end of audio engineering because it was always a bit of a black art to me. I think the main difference is between passive and active listening. Our Sound Engineers were able to listen 'through' the sound and detect things I would never notice.
JohnB, or may I call you Sloopy
I think the Dutch translation may be suffering, and my Babelfish has gone on strike!
Listening at high volume: I'm a bit baffled about you talking about AC and DC. If what you are listening to is relatively uncompressed, then the amplifier volume setting has to be high, depending on listening conditions of course. Then you can hear quiet passages above the noise of the traffic. So, to handle the loud passages your amplifier has to be able to handle the signal and not clip and therefore needs a high power rating. The speaker essentially has the same challenge. If buying separates for the home, it is therefore important to match the speaker to the amp. Much better IMHO for the average listener to go for active speakers, where the amp and speaker are integrated, then there isn't a matching problem.
CD v Vinyl: In this area there is no contest, CDs have a maximum Dynamic Range of 96db whilst vinyl only manages 60db or so. Thus CDs are superior in reproducing the long term texture of music that has a wide DR.
Of course it's a wholly different ball game when you factor in compression especially in popular music. Not just what compressors do after the fact but also the different dynamic ranges of individual musical instruments.
On this I am certainly no expert, but suffice to say some of the best technical people are still battling with the issues.

[okeedoe]

Vinyl LP records are much better. They fly so beautifully when you fling them away with a great force.CD's are completely useless for that matter.

[nicktecky]

<EDIT>

So back to the topic, does anyone know why LPs became thinner, given the emphasis today on "heavy" vinyl?

[redrabid]

The oil crisis in the early 70s. Vinyl became expensive. So they had to cut costs, that was what people in the music industry told me years ago. As they were working in the A&R department, I wouldn't bet on it though.

[usedtobebabson]

Hanging CDs from your cherry tree is supposed to keep the birds away. Hanging CDs at your boat dock is supposed to keep the birds from shiting on it.
Think all media will soon be replaced by magnetic disc storage. Ipod is the next CD and I don't own one.
Same advantage, crystal clear signal. No wear like vinyl and CD. Yes the laser doesn't touch the CD, but I have had scratched ones. Hmm disk read errors is possible I guess.
The better amps will pass the high frequencies with more amplification. So to tell if you have an expensive amp, listen for bells and high pitched dings. They will be louder and clearer. They call it a bode plot. As frequency increases (deep bass, to high pitches) The gain of the amplifier drops. the expensive amps will extend the frequency range past the audible range, so there is more gain or amplitude as you move away from base to the dings symbols and bells.

[nicktecky]

AND I can get CDs to go through my crosscut shredder, no luck yet with a vinyl LP, the slot is not wide enough.


Oil crisis: mmm... possible, perhaps not the LP itself but the weight cut would really bite into the shipping costs, also thinner so more in a box. Wait a minute, could it be a Mono/Stereo thing?
Perhaps the Mono groove is deeper, I'll see if I can find out, got to feed the cat and the wife now.
(In that order)


<EDIT>

Later:
Well what do you know, it's all on Wiki, just search "Gramophone Record".
Yes, it turns out they made them thinner to save money, now who would have thought that!