Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

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Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby oldblue on Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:57 am

I have been thinking about the phrase “Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose,” and I see a major problem with it. If you have “nothing left to lose,” haven’t you lost everything, including your freedom? Or put another way, freedom describes a condition in which freedom does not exist. So how can it be that freedom is not having freedom or the absence of freedom? It would seem to be a major paradox.

Perhaps Bob Dylan was closer to the truth when he wrote "When you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose."

Or the great McKinley Morganfield who said "You can't spend what you ain't got, can't lose what you never had."

Maybe Kris Kristofferson was stoned when he wrote it or thinking about when he was working as a janitor at Columbia Music Row Studio in Nashville and emptying the ashtrays in the studio where Bob Dylan was recording Blonde on Blonde. I dunno.
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby redrabid on Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:03 pm

Freedom is not about having or not having, it's about possibilities, being able to make choices.
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby oldblue on Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:10 pm

redrabid wrote:Freedom is not about having or not having, it's about possibilities, being able to make choices.


that's not what the song says
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby PsychedelicRabbit on Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:44 pm

Freedom is adaptable in definition for the person you're applying it to. That's what I think, anyway.
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby oldblue on Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:47 pm

PsychedelicRabbit wrote:Freedom is adaptable in definition for the person you're applying it to. That's what I think, anyway.


i'm not sure i understand what you're saying
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby PsychedelicRabbit on Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:57 pm

Freedom means different things to different people. That's what I mean. Freedom means something different for everyone.
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby oldblue on Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:21 pm

PsychedelicRabbit wrote:Freedom means different things to different people. That's what I mean. Freedom means something different for everyone.


so, by this line of reasoning, hitler or stalin's concept of freedom would be as legitimate as lincoln's.

i don't even want to get into slave-owing jefferson or washington
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby PsychedelicRabbit on Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:40 pm

I didn't say it was always going to be a great definition, now did I?
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby oldblue on Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:53 pm

PsychedelicRabbit wrote:I didn't say it was always going to be a great definition, now did I?


certainly makes for some muddy water
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby PsychedelicRabbit on Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:12 pm

Life is hard. I hate what Hitler, Stalin, and Jefferson all did to people different from them. Freedom means something different to everyone else, and sometimes different views clash. It's not pretty, not ever. Life is one of the worst hells someone will ever go through sometimes. But it can also be wonderful and heavenly at other times. That's how it is, I suppose. The bad seed ruins it for the others; but not all Nazi's wanted to kill the Jewish people, not all Russians were communists, and not all southerner's were racists...
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby redrabid on Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:58 pm

As I said elsewhere, I think Kristofferson's line stinks, OldBlue. But I think you're right resisting PsychedelicRabbit's definition. Yes, PR, I too think that your definition is a highly dangerous one. It is similar to the one used by all kinds of political and religious oppressors.
Last edited by redrabid on Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby oldblue on Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:59 pm

PsychedelicRabbit wrote:Life is hard. I hate what Hitler, Stalin, and Jefferson all did to people different from them. Freedom means something different to everyone else, and sometimes different views clash. It's not pretty, not ever. Life is one of the worst hells someone will ever go through sometimes. But it can also be wonderful and heavenly at other times. That's how it is, I suppose. The bad seed ruins it for the others; but not all Nazi's wanted to kill the Jewish people, not all Russians were communists, and not all southerner's were racists...


yet my questions about the line still haven't been answered
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby EmbryonicRabbit68 on Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:37 pm

I think get what PR said, freedom means different things to different people, and allowing everyone to feel freedom in their own way, is freedom itself. And limiting freedom to one definition, one singular belief, is in small a way, fascism. The point is, is the word freedom should be left out of question, it shouldn't be used as a morality boost like it is used for a lot. Freedom is just a word that should not be bound by a certain belief or definition. Free, I believe, could be another description of that.
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby oldblue on Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:49 pm

EmbryonicRabbit68 wrote:I think get what PR said, freedom means different things to different people, and allowing everyone to feel freedom in their own way, is freedom itself. And limiting freedom to one definition, one singular belief, is in small a way, fascism. The point is, is the word freedom should be left out of question, it shouldn't be used as a morality boost like it is used for a lot. Freedom is just a word that should not be bound by a certain belief or definition. Free, I believe, could be another description of that.


yet what about a fascist's definition of freedom? or the nazi slogan over the gates of auschwitz that "work makes you free" i'm sure those people who were worked to death felt real free. well maybe they did when they died.

so if we don[t use the word freedom for freedom what do we call it? i propsoe we call it Al
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Re: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose

Postby EmbryonicRabbit68 on Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:33 pm

Why does everything have to deal with the Nazis? They were fucked up, they were vile murderous bugs and thankfully are now gone. I didn't say "don't use the word freedom for freedom", I just meant that if you're going to use it, use it carefully and make sure you're using it correctly, but that's not to limit freedom of speech either. "Work makes you free" is very (extremely) obviously the wrong way to use it.

And if a fascist wants to believe that freedom is working a person to death, fine, whatever, be a sick individual. It's going to bite you in the ass one day anyway, WW2 is an example of that. There are evils in this world that are just going to happen, so it takes somebody to do something about it to stop those evils. Whether freedom is involved or not doesn't matter, what matters is if you're doing the right thing. That's why freedom should be left out of question.
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