what grounded the airplane?

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what grounded the airplane?

Postby oldblue on Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:12 pm

cocaine and radical politics?
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Re: what grounded the airplane?

Postby redrabid on Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:04 pm

None of those:.Arrogance coupled with inexperience.
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Re: what grounded the airplane?

Postby oldblue on Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:03 pm

redrabid wrote:None of those:.Arrogance coupled with inexperience.


sure about that? i thought cocaine and arrogance and radical politics and inexperience were the same things.
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Re: what grounded the airplane?

Postby Susan Butcher on Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:51 pm

Grace's pregnancy maybe, which meant inactivity for a while. They were never quite the same afterwards, with Marty missing, and minds on other projects. Not to blame anyone; all wells run dry eventually.
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Re: what grounded the airplane?

Postby DonRico1967 on Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:52 pm

From what I have learned , it was just five disparate personalities always struggling to get along yet still great in performing their stage and studio magic.

Probably the other stuff, too.

... And Jack and Jorma's Scandinavian speed-skating obsession. :P
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Re: what grounded the airplane?

Postby usedtobebabson on Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:03 pm

The draft was over, 5 years of the counterculture had taken it's toll, a return to normalcy was in the air. In other words, the war was over.
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Re: what grounded the airplane?

Postby redrabid on Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:39 pm

Arrogance and cocaine do have a connection, but to me there is none between radical politics and inexperience. Here a possible explanation based partly on what some bandmembers themselves said.
After Marty Balin withdrew/was ousted as pilot, the Airplane was pretty much without direction (Kaukonen). Big ego's broke down the communication in the band (Slick) and excessive use of "cold" drugs didn't help either (Kantner). By sacking Dryden the band lost some of its magic and JA's sound became a much more common one. When Marty left the group lost its voice. That mesmerizing, sexy vocal battle between Grace and Marty, that unique trademark, was gone.
The pilot out, the rest of the crew fighting amongst themselves, the engine faltering, its flight more down to earth, the crash of JA was unevitable. Too bad because, as Kaukonen confessed later, the differences weren't as big as perceived at the time.
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Re: what grounded the airplane?

Postby plasticfantastic on Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:45 pm

I think it was Grace who said that it's hard being in a band because you end up spending more time with them than your own family, and that when you spend that much time together, arguments are inevitable.

Of course the differences seem smaller now! Forty years have gone by, and it's hard to feud about that sort of thing for that long. It's nice to hear that they're coming to terms with their differences though.
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Re: what grounded the airplane?

Postby Susan Butcher on Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:47 pm

The vocal play between Marty and Grace is what I miss the most in the later records.

When you say "cold" drugs, do you mean nasal decongestants?!
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Re: what grounded the airplane?

Postby oldblue on Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:10 am

Susan Butcher wrote:The vocal play between Marty and Grace is what I miss the most in the later records.

When you say "cold" drugs, do you mean nasal decongestants?!



snoooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt!
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Re: what grounded the airplane?

Postby oldblue on Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:14 am

redrabid wrote:Arrogance and cocaine do have a connection, but to me there is none between radical politics and inexperience.


you think those new lefters had any idea of what they were doing? lambs led to the slaughter. bomb making indeed.
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Re: what grounded the airplane?

Postby redrabid on Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:42 am

This is what Paul Kantner said about "cold" drugs in an interview with Nick Ralph in Dark Star ca. 1978:
...We got coke at the Monterey Pop Festival, when we were first introduced to cocaine. Probably two years later we were doing it fairly heavily....Eventually it had something to do with breaking the band up, with Marty's leaving the band. It makes you very cold and impersonal, not really wanting to deal with others as a band, I think. And Jorma and Jack got into speed a lot when they played. Both of them are very cold and impersonal drugs. So that among about 50 other things broke up the band eventually.
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Re: what grounded the airplane?

Postby Susan Butcher on Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:31 am

Thanks for that quote, RR.

I think of the late Sixties as a time when it was cool to "out-radical" your peers. If you were in a rock group, it was easy. Just a matter of the right words. If you were active politically, it could be suicidal.

In case you want to know my position, according to the "Mad Guide To Political Types" (1972) I'm 3/4 "New Left Extremist" and 1/4 "Reactionary".
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Re: what grounded the airplane?

Postby EmbryonicRabbit68 on Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:55 am

Well, we also have to take into consideration that the band took over a year off of touring, Nov. 1970 to Jan. 1972, leaving out four helpless, Balin-less shows from Aug./Sept. 1971.It must have been hard, I mean, Grace ended up being the only one up there without an instrument, no one to feed off of, and shes never been the lone singer, except for The Great Society.It must also be hard on the road when you got a kid on board, especially a newborn.Plus, times do change, not only politically, but musically.They just didn't fit in, the early 1970s were NOT the time for Jefferson Airplane.Listen to Bark and LJS, and listen to everything else at the time, and its hard to say they "fit in".Thats not to say I don't like those albums though.

Plus, I shouldn't say drugs didn't have a huge part in it, 50% of bands and careers end because of drugs.I don't see why their end is a heatedly debated subject, there was so much against them, but on the other hand, I could have seen them pulling together, and surviving it.They just sort of got selfish in the end, what each of them wanted, and what wasn't good for the group and their fans.And it continued, Jefferson Starship lived a good 90% on trying to get hits and be hot on the charts, not making the music that got their fans in the first place, and I hate to say this, but its hard to say you're "doing it for the fans", when you're playing six to eight hours a night (Hot Tuna).But, I'm not criticizing Hot Tuna, nor am I say bands should do EVERYTHING just for the fans, they gotta enjoy themselves too.

So I say the break up was based on their egos and un-interest in the group.
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Re: what grounded the airplane?

Postby jimmie ray on Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:17 am

EmbryonicRabbit68 wrote:I hate to say this, but its hard to say you're "doing it for the fans", when you're playing six to eight hours a night (Hot Tuna).But, I'm not criticizing Hot Tuna, nor am I say bands should do EVERYTHING just for the fans, they gotta enjoy themselves too.


I'd say you can't do much more for your fans, than play six to eight hours a night, particularly when it's all provided for one ticket's price. Unless you mean that would interfere with composing new music in the studio? But covering or adapting older tunes was and still is the strong point of Hot Tuna, and the decades old appeal to their fanbase. The shorter show lengths, and guest appearances they have implemented are the only grievences that I'm aware of in the more recent years.
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