What Do You Guys Know About Vinyl?

[Susan Butcher]

The worst tapes are those made in the Eighties that go "sticky" after a while. But I've got tapes from the Sixties that are still fine. Albums and 45s... I'm sure some will be fossilized! Which means that some fragments of sound from the 20th Century could last a hundred million years or so.

[nicktecky]

Sorry SB, creep will destroy any vinyl unless you can arrange to keep it in a (very deep) freezer, although who'll pay the bills for 100m yrs?

[okeedoe]

Now I am very interested.So if you'd be so cooperative and tell me what should I do about the problem ,Nicky ?What's the best thing to do ? I've got mu stuff backed up both on DVDs and external hard disks.

[SuperSlick66]

vinyl is the bees knees

[Egg Crisis]

The worst tapes are those made in the Eighties that go "sticky" after a while. But I've got tapes from the Sixties that are still fine. Albums and 45s... I'm sure some will be fossilized! Which means that some fragments of sound from the 20th Century could last a hundred million years or so.

Yeah! I'd not thought about that. In the future they'd be able to x-ray the fossilised remains and use whatever computers they have then to analyse the grooves and retreive the music. On the other hand they'd not be able to recover anything from the remains of a cd or a hard drive. They'll wonder what heppened to our civilization as from archaeological-audio records it'll look like we just vanished at the end of the 20th Century.

[nicktecky]

what's the problem, okd?
<EDIT>
Sorry, that's a bit abrupt, I meant to say could you be a little clearer what you want help with, if I can, I'll be glad to
<EDIT>
Sorry chaps, but vinyl creep will kill albums long before archaeologists need to be called in.
(Oh dear that's a repeat!)
And the Internet is immortal, therefore so is data.

[Egg Crisis]

I've never heard of "vinyl creep" (and a google search just finds people's usernames & nothing useful), but if a fish's fin or something as fragile as a butterfly wing can be fossilised then a piece of plastic would survive with no problem at all.

[nicktecky]

Vinyl creep: Yes, I can imagine Google having fun with that!
Now you've got me, I thought I had read it in the "Gramophone Record" wiki entry, but I have been surfing back and forth over a few articles, and now can't find the reference.
So I'll rely on general principles in that LPs are made from a thermoplastic which will deform over time. We've all seen it, if you leave an album out in the sun, or over a radiator or fire, especially at an angle, it will warp. Well, it will do it at room temperature, just more slowly. And at extreme ages it will deform under its own weight, so the grooves will slowly distort. Pitch does a similar thing but more quickly.

Strictly speaking creep is a metallurgical term, it occurs when crystals within the body of the metal slide against each other. It is very specifically a long term deformation.

In that same wiki article, Laser groove scanning and the IRENE scanner are described.

Also interesting in a tecky (not interesting really) way is how the pre-emphasis and equalisation used in mastering vinyl disks wasn't standardised. That is the first I heard of such a thing, and is quite a shock. Even different plants being different one to another!

[Susan Butcher]

On the fossil thing, it doesn't matter too much if the plastic creeps over time, it'd be the boundary between the plastic and hardened mud that would count. Vinyl's also pretty hard once the plasticiser has leached out. In any case, that objection wouldn't apply to shellac discs.

(Useless information, seems to fill my head with nothing that I need.)

[nicktecky]

OK SB, you got me! If a vinyl disk was lost under clay so fine that it made a cast of the LP, then there would be an ammonite-like impression on each of the two halves, ready to be split open. More geologist than archaeologist, but quite poetic.

(Thinks: I hope Grace is on it, it would be a shame for the aliens to miss out!)

...

...mmm,

Wait a minute, wouldn't the LP float? So how could it get there,...aha, I think I see through your devious plan Moriarty!!

[Susan Butcher]

Do LPs float? I've washed quite a few, but my sink wasn't big enough to tell. It wouldn't float if it was in a mud puddle under a pile of rubbish. However, you'd only get an impression of one side. Chances are, it'd be Mantovani...

[nicktecky]

Specific Gravity of Vinyl, (PlasticsUSA.com):

PVC Flexib (Unfilled) 1.05 -
PVC Flexible (Unfilled) 1.16 - 1.30
PVC Flexible (Filled) 1.30 - 1.70
PVC (Rigid) 1.35 - 1.45


So what do you know, all those albums lost overboard or otherwise consigned to the deep will be resting on the bottom, ready to sink into the abyssal ooze!

[Susan Butcher]

All we need is someone to deep six a copy of "Surrealistic Pillow" at the right place, and it belongs to the ages.