????John Lennon's "Imagine"????

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????John Lennon's "Imagine"????

Postby BlackCladLizard on Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:53 am

This is just something I got from this subliminal messages website. Tell me what you guys think:

JOHN LENNON: Imagine
Musicians have always exploited Music as a means of propagating political ideas. Political ideologies are ingeniously diffused without the listener having to confirm affiliation. John Lennon was recognised as much as a 'thinker' as he was a musician. He was hailed by many, and still is, as a proponent of Democracy. Below is illustrated how John Lennon incorporated Marxist and communist ideologies into his music, in the famous single, Imagine.

1-Imagine that there was no heaven, it's easy if you try

2-No hell below us, above us only sky 2

3-Imagine all the people living for Today 3

4-Imagine there are no countries 4

5-It isn't hard to, nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too 5

Imagine all the people living in peace, Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can, no need for greed or hunger, a brotherhood of Man

6-Imagine all the people sharing all the world. 6

You may say that I am a dreamer, but I'm not the only one

7-I hope some day you'll join us when the world be as one. 7


1. The attack on Religion. Marxism propagates Religion as an obstacle toward economic prosperity. Russia was once the seat of the Muslims. Bukhara and Samarkand were the centers of Muslim learning and civilisation. Imam Bukhari was from Bukhara. Communism openly and systematically almost destroyed Islam. It is no coincidence that architectural designs within the former Soviet Union look like mosques. Thousands of mosques were destroyed. The Ulema (scholars) were persecuted, books were burnt. It is only after two decades of struggle and Jihad that the Soviet Union was tamed.

2. The belief that there is no Jannah (Heaven) or Jahannum (Hell), that there is no Aakirah (Hereafter).

3. The attack on 'self interest', the guiding principle of Western economies.

4. The attack on Nationalism. The idea of a world view, a one world government, a 'New World Order'.

5. Once again the attack on Religion. According to Lennon these ideas are not fantasy but are practically achievable.

6. The belief that everything belongs to the State. The abolition of private property, individuals should worship the state and recognise it as their 'Rabb' (sustainer).

7. A century after Marx's death, there were well over a billion persons who were at least nominally his followers. That fact led many communists to hope that the future might well see the eventual world triumph of Marxism.
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Postby Bloodshed Bob on Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:49 am

I think after the fall of the USSR, die-hard communists/marxists look everywhere to find a sparkle of hope...
It reminds me of those people who spin the records of Ozzy and Judas Priest backwards, hoping to find a satanic message.

Not that i am right-wing, but honestly... who can still be a true believer in communism today? Only the ignorant, I guess...
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Postby zeke on Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:05 pm

I agree with bob.but if john wrote imagine for this reason, well I don't care.it is a very good song.
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Postby gTarFreak on Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:47 pm

If you're implying that Lennon was endorsing Communism on the basis of similarities between his wishes for a 'perfect world' and your re-statements of Marxist ideology, think again. Proponents of Communism (as well as any other dictatorship, republic, etc.) always promise utopia. Communism itself is doomed to failure because it denies individuality and has never gotten to the point where the state 'withers away'. Communist countries (and, really, all countries) are ruled by those seeking to satisfy their own 'self interests', hardly a western concept at all.

The song is called Imagine. I think its supposed to get you doing just that, and thinking. It was written in the early 70's when the stink of the Nixon administration was still filling the air, civil rights were still a major issue, religous leaders were still proclaiming America's fight against Communism to be a 'Holy War' (if that isn't an oxymoron, I don't know what is), the IRA was regularly terrorizing Norther Ireland, etc., etc., ad nauseum. As far as being anti-religion, well, the most bloodiest wars, battles, crusades, jihads (whatever you want to call them) have all been in the name of somebody's god, usually against somebody elses' god.

And I doubt that he was actually proposing a classless society, given his wealth and lifestyle. He certainly could have lived on a commune if he truly believed in it.

Anyhow, if you're going to go looking for conspiracies in music, may I suggest "Puff The Magic Dragon", a cunningly subversive song if I ever did hear one! :roll:

Cheers,
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Postby Don Rico on Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:44 am

gTarFreak wrote:...the IRA was regularly terrorizing Norther Ireland, etc....


Wow, Dave... Now THAT'S a bit ahh... ONE-SIDED there...

I mean it WAS Her Majesty's troops that slaughtered all those civilians in the "Sunday Bloody Sunday" massacre...

And the Republican loyalists (Protestant) are EVERY bit the "terrorists" that the IRA / "Provos" (Catholic) are...

Seriously...
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Postby gTarFreak on Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:52 am

Sorry, Don, didn't mean to single out a particular side, just know it was an awful bloody mess. Looking back at it, I don't think any side looks good.

Cheers,
Dave
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Postby Bloodshed Bob on Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:36 pm

gTarFreak wrote:Communist countries (and, really, all countries) are ruled by those seeking to satisfy their own 'self interests', hardly a western concept at all.


Back in the days, the '60s, I would say rather the USA was driven by self intrest, which resulted in nationalistic movements as Castro and the Vietminh to ask USSR for help.
How strange it may sound, but the USA helped to establish communism in these regions by turning down their requests for change. But then again you are right because they only chose communism to save their 'own' revolution.
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Postby Shadow_of_A_Doubt on Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:39 pm

John Lennon stood for peace after the beatles split. He didnt mean to ruin communism or capitolism. He only wanted both to live in harmoney with each other. Lennon had that amazing power to move whole masses of people to do anything. Very few people have had this power...Adolf Hitler had it :roll: , Ossima bin ladden has it and Lennon had it. If John Lennon had it. Communism was doomed to fail anyways, you cannot have a janitor and a nukular engineer making the same wages, driving the same car and living in the same neighborhood. All Lennon wanted was peace on earth reguardless how each countrys government was set up or who religion each person was. But tell the people what they want to hear, and they will believe it. If you listen closely backwards to the J Giles Bands song " No anchovies Please " it says " it dosent take a genious to know the difference between chicken shit and chicken salad" clearly audiable. I think that was a pun at the people who think they have the right meaning behind songs or what they think they hear.
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Postby guest on Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:11 am

hey,

wow lol, blackcladlizrd, this site that you obtained this information on is quite incorrect, what john was saying ( in my opinion) is that he just wanted a peaceful worl without all the bullshit of politics and backstabbing, he wasnt picking communism or capitalism, he just wanted to be free
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Postby knight of ni on Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:41 am

There are so many "conspiracy theories" out there these days! I think we should just all relax and listen to the music and intepret it in the way that best fits our lives. Otherwise we'll all get paranoid!
Jelly and juice and bubbles...bubbles on the floor
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Postby moonshadow on Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:58 am

I love that song, and all I interpretted it to mean is that if we took away all these needless things that seperate people, we would have a better,more peaceful, and unified world.
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Re: ????John Lennon's "Imagine"????

Postby Grace on Tue May 03, 2005 1:02 am

BlackCladLizard wrote:This is just something I got from this subliminal messages website. Tell me what you guys think:

JOHN LENNON: Imagine
Musicians have always exploited Music as a means of propagating political ideas. Political ideologies are ingeniously diffused without the listener having to confirm affiliation. John Lennon was recognised as much as a 'thinker' as he was a musician. He was hailed by many, and still is, as a proponent of Democracy. Below is illustrated how John Lennon incorporated Marxist and communist ideologies into his music, in the famous single, Imagine.

1-Imagine that there was no heaven, it's easy if you try

2-No hell below us, above us only sky 2

3-Imagine all the people living for Today 3

4-Imagine there are no countries 4

5-It isn't hard to, nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too 5

Imagine all the people living in peace, Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can, no need for greed or hunger, a brotherhood of Man

6-Imagine all the people sharing all the world. 6

You may say that I am a dreamer, but I'm not the only one

7-I hope some day you'll join us when the world be as one. 7


1. The attack on Religion. Marxism propagates Religion as an obstacle toward economic prosperity. Russia was once the seat of the Muslims. Bukhara and Samarkand were the centers of Muslim learning and civilisation. Imam Bukhari was from Bukhara. Communism openly and systematically almost destroyed Islam. It is no coincidence that architectural designs within the former Soviet Union look like mosques. Thousands of mosques were destroyed. The Ulema (scholars) were persecuted, books were burnt. It is only after two decades of struggle and Jihad that the Soviet Union was tamed.

2. The belief that there is no Jannah (Heaven) or Jahannum (Hell), that there is no Aakirah (Hereafter).

3. The attack on 'self interest', the guiding principle of Western economies.

4. The attack on Nationalism. The idea of a world view, a one world government, a 'New World Order'.

5. Once again the attack on Religion. According to Lennon these ideas are not fantasy but are practically achievable.

6. The belief that everything belongs to the State. The abolition of private property, individuals should worship the state and recognise it as their 'Rabb' (sustainer).

7. A century after Marx's death, there were well over a billion persons who were at least nominally his followers. That fact led many communists to hope that the future might well see the eventual world triumph of Marxism.


That's nice :twisted:
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Postby jonestown on Tue May 03, 2005 7:05 pm

Hmmm. Ah, eh, . . .
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