Some people bum me out..

[PsychedelicRabbit]

I really don't like myself that much. (edited post)

[Susan Butcher]

Love can have both a spiritual and sexual aspect, one doesn't exclude the other. I suppose spiritual love can be "deep", since you can feel that kind of love for someone you don't know, or even someone that you dislike in some ways; maybe "higher" is a better word to describe it. It's the recognition of other person as a fellow soul.

[PsychedelicRabbit]

I really don't like myself that much. (edited post)

[graceslick]

Heheh, thinking like a psychologist is fun. I have a psychology degree, but never used it because I didn’t want the pressure of having to sit in front of people every day, all day, assessing them, talking to them, having some people freak out on me…I love delving into people’s minds and the reasons why they do and feel things, but I’m really quite uncomfortable dealing with deep feelings. Even with my own partner, if she’s upset and crying, I comfort her but I don’t like it. I just want her back to normal again so I don’t have to deal with it! lol

I understand not wanting to post the website. I won’t mention it again. It pains me not to be able to communicate with Grace or say stuff that Grace could actually read, but I do understand. I don’t understand how those people who said rude things about her managed to find out about this website and how all these people you know found out about it, but oh well. I mean, someone asked if I’d give them the contact address I found for Grace, and I wouldn’t even do that!! I wasn’t comfortable. And that’s despite the fact it’s right there on a website for anyone to see (if they join the website), so…I understand. (Not to harp on, but I wonder if the rude and ignorant people who wrote those comments to Grace really knew it was Grace who was reading them. Maybe they thought it wasn’t really her and so they wrote them. It’s still rude, stupid, unnecessary and hurtful, but maybe they didn’t know it was Grace and if they had, they wouldn’t have said them.)

[PsychedelicRabbit]

I really don't like myself that much. (edited post)

[graceslick]

Hmm…that’s a toughie! On a basic, generalised level I don’t think anyone can truly explain or understand exactly how another person feels. It’s impossible unless you are that person, because every single life experience, thought and feeling is highly subjective and completely affected by every other life experience, thought and feel that particular person has ever had. So even people like you who are empathetic and “feelers” so to speak and who are good at reading people and very receptive to energies and feelings, what you receive is not quite exactly how the other person is feeling because all the feelings you receive are coloured and affected by your own life experience. Anyway, that’s a very obvious and longwinded way of saying I don’t really know what Susan means because I’m not Susan and only she can really know. lol

I personally think that higher love or deeper love sort of surpasses what most people consider “love” to be. A lot of people get love and lust mixed up. This is the stupidest form of “love” and I would hope most people who are adults would understand there is a difference. Some don’t though. Then there is the mix up between love and need. This is really common and pretty much almost impossible to separate. The two are so entwined together. As soon as you love someone a lot, you need them to make you completely happy, you know? So the love becomes dependent upon having the person around. This tends to then create the problems of jealousy, possessiveness, fear of loss, feelings of inadequacy and helplessness as you’re now no longer 100% whole within yourself because you now need this other person you can’t control, feelings of resentment, and a basic feeling of expectations you have of this person. You expect things from them. (this is off the subject and sorry, I tend to drift and go off on tangents when trying to make a point which probably makes no sense anyway, but when my ex girlfriend and I broke up, it was almost a relief. There were no longer any expectations that eventually neither of us wanted to fulfil, and we went back to being best friends, which we still are)…so yeah. Once you love someone and depend on them, you expect things. And if they don’t want to or can’t deliver these things, that’s when problems begin.

Anyway…another complication of love is judgement. A lot of people, stemming from the above, judge their loved one, mainly because their expectations are not being met.

I guess maybe a big aspect of higher love to me is a love free of complications. Unconditional love perhaps, but more sort of…all encompassing. Your love for Grace is sexual yes, and that’s an aspect. That’s the lust aspect. This doesn’t mean I’m saying you are confusing love and lust, not at all. It means that your higher love is not affected by the lust aspect. That’s an added part of the overall love you have for Grace. This doesn’t complicate the love. It complements it if anything.

In my opinion, your love for Grace, being a “higher” love, is a love that is simple, uncomplicated, and you don’t require anything from her in return to still feel this deep love.

[graceslick]

Yes CD, god is a subject often too heavy for many people. My (most likely stupid) opinion on this subject that I know little about is that there are different types of people…

1. Those who have strong and firm opinions on god
2. Those who have strong and firm opinions on religion
3. Those who are unsure and do not really understand god but who believe in something but don’t follow a religion (this is me)
4. Those who are unsure and do not really understood god but still go to church or follow a religion cause they’re scared
5. Those who don’t care

The people who fall into number 1 are ok, depending. The people who fall into number 2 tend to suck. Religion is silly to me. It can be helpful to people who are scared to give them some sense of control, but when in its negative form, it is merely contradictory to the very purpose of itself (to treat people well, etc).

I am in number 3 and fine with it.

Meh. See, now I’m bored of talking about this. Mainly because I simply don’t understand it enough to have a proper opinion.

[PsychedelicRabbit]

I really don't like myself that much. (edited post)

[graceslick]

When I said the love is simple, I didn’t mean that in a “simple” sense. It’s not basic or elementary or not evolved. I meant simple in that, for love, simple IS very deep and evolved. Love doesn’t need to be, and shouldn’t be, complicated by those other things. Love is love. Its highest and deepest form IS simple. That’s what I meant for you.

Lust is good, yes, IF it’s not complicating the love you have. For you, it’s not complicating it. It’s added on to the love you feel, as a lovely and desirous part of the love. That’s really good.

In terms of the soul mate thing…when Susan mentioned souls, maybe she meant you are one of the people (few people perhaps) who are wise in terms of love (or at least this love you have specifically for Grace) and who actually love and have this deep appreciation for a soul. Just a soul, simply and purely for being that soul. You love Grace for simply being herself. All of herself. You don’t want to change her. You don’t love just certain parts of her and tolerate others. You love all of her. Something along those lines.

Sometimes I feel love for people in general, and it’s quite weird. Usually I’m surly and grumpy sometimes and aloof and reserved and don’t interact much with people, and am cynical (though sort of optimistic at the same time) and yet get these flashes of deep love for humanity, even with all its flaws and problems. I don’t know what I’m talking about now! lol

[PsychedelicRabbit]

I really don't like myself that much. (edited post)

[graceslick]

Yes, your posts sometimes do make me grin. Lol. I feel almost gleeful, you know? Joyous.

Yep, “simple” in terms of love is the opposite to its normal meaning.

Can you explain this better for me? I also don't understand this:

I don't think the love is simple; it is the hardest thing for me to explain. It is very deep; it comes from a part of me that I didn't even know could feel emotion this deep. It's suddenly like this part of me is woken up ever since I found her. I've never felt anything like this before. It's further than the pit of your stomach. It's like it's coming from the pit of a stomach that doesn't exist. You know what I mean? I feel the love for her deeply, but it seems to be coming from other form of thing. Some "deep space" sort of place. It is very deep. I've never felt my gut smile, but it really does when I think of Grace or see her. And never have I ever heard anyone explain this sort of love before, so that's why I'm really exploring this for the first time. This love is deep, man. Really.

You want me to explain this cause you don’t understand it? But you wrote it! lol. You’re a cutie.

Anyway, I don’t know. As I said, I can’t understand fully what another person feels. I don’t even know if I’VE ever felt it, so I wouldn’t really know how to articulate it or explain it to another person. Maybe it’s not able to be put into words, you know? It’s just this bursting feeling, this almost exhilarating feeling and whole body feeling of complete and utter love.

Can anyone explain it?? Maybe I’m emotionally stunted. lol

[PsychedelicRabbit]

I really don't like myself that much. (edited post)

[Susan Butcher]

Rabbit, I don't think I can add much to GS's excellent posts on the subject of love. I'll just mention a book C.S. Lewis wrote on the subject, "The Four Loves". Lewis was a Christian, and he thought that the various kinds of love people feel were reflections of their love, or longing, for God. I'm not a Christian, but some of his ideas are interesting. I think of spiritual love as a love for the divine nature, the godhead, the soul, however you decribe it, in other people. "Soulmates", yes, but we are all souls. But this is just my opinion; I can't get inside your head and tell you, "Yes, the way you feel about Grace is a spiritual love."

As for my religious beliefs, I've had what I think are religious experiences, I believe in a SOMETHING I don't fully understand and can't describe adequately, but I'm not an adherent of any particular religion. (I feel I need to explain this for the benefit of CD. )

[PsychedelicRabbit]

Rabbit, I don't think I can add much to GS's excellent posts on the subject of love. I'll just mention a book C.S. Lewis wrote on the subject, "The Four Loves". Lewis was a Christian, and he thought that the various kinds of love people feel were reflections of their love, or longing, for God. I'm not a Christian, but some of his ideas are interesting. I think of spiritual love as a love for the divine nature, the godhead, the soul, however you decribe it, in other people. "Soulmates", yes, but we are all souls. But this is just my opinion; I can't get inside your head and tell you, "Yes, the way you feel about Grace is a spiritual love."

As for my religious beliefs, I've had what I think are religious experiences, I believe in a SOMETHING I don't fully understand and can't describe adequately, but I'm not an adherent of any particular religion. (I feel I need to explain this for the benefit of CD. )

Well, it isn't entirely about her soul; it's also about her as a human being. It is hard to explain, but maybe you get more from the story? I can't explain it...it goes beyond anything that words can explain.
Do you consider spiritual love a deep feeling?

I'll explain more later. I'm at school, and I feel uncomfortable writing about my love for Grace here!

[Susan Butcher]

Is it a "deep" feeling? On the rare occasions I feel it directly, it's joyful and uncomplicated. It can seem intense because it's like I've suddenly remembered something important I've forgotten. Most of the time, though, it's just the way I think I OUGHT to feel about other people, including people I otherwise despise (like Michael Jackson's lawyers). Knowing that love exists does help cut through some of the crap in a world of hate, greed, and general rudeness. I don't think I can say much more about it. That's just the way it seems to me.