Defending My Grace Obsession

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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby graceslick on Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:36 pm

I don’t actually think she constantly thinks of death.

She does tend to mention it sometimes in a funny/sarcastic way, and some of me thinks that’s just her way of dealing with any fear or apprehension or whatever about it. You know, get on the defensive first and laugh at it or be rude or blunt about it before it comes to get you “unprepared” or such?

I think she’s happy in general. She seems happy to me, despite any talk of her own “rotting” body, or bits “falling apart” and all that. And I mean, with Grace as we all know, she does tend to say things rather bluntly at times. Where most people her age might say how their leg aches or whatever, she’ll say her leg’s gonna fall off cause she’s old and stuff. Lol. You know what she’s like. I do think she’s happy. I think she enjoys life, and especially the little things, you know? Simple things. They’re really important to appreciate, at any age.

Rabbit, I understand your fears about people you love, including Grace, dying. I don’t think about death all the time and I don’t worry about Grace dying all the time (if I do actually dwell on it, which I don’t tend to do, then of course I get sad and prefer not to think about it for very long), but I do find I get really scared about my parents dying and think about this a LOT, to the point where I’m wondering if it’s irrational and if I might have some kind of anxiety disorder specific to this fear.

Sometimes when I’m lying in bed at night I get so scared the phone will ring, because that to me would mean someone had died or something. If ever I’m at work and can’t answer my phone and then later I check it and see I’ve missed a call from my parents, I freak out that something’s happened, even though it’s just normal stuff.

I think my irrational fear of this stems from me living in another state from them, so if something DID happen, I’d take ages to get there and it’d just be even more traumatic. Also because I’m still so immature in my own mind and SO don’t feel “grown up”, even at 30 (almost). Also because I tend to have such a huge problem talking with most people about how I feel, and although I do definitely SHOW them I love them with lots of affection and presents and always calling them twice a week and stuff like that, I have troubles being open and stuff verbally with them, so I constantly feel guilty and scared that something will happen and I won’t have expressed properly my deep feelings of love for them.

Rabbit, maybe this is something similar to your thing about Grace. Maybe if you were actually near her and her friend or whatever, you’d not be quite so scared, because you could SEE she was ok instead of just having photos and occasional interviews and stuff…you know? You’d also maybe be able to tell her your feelings as opposed to having all of that intensity bottled up inside (well, it’s been expressed to us and also to your friends and also to Grace in the letter, but you know what I mean, right? You’re not TALKING with her and stuff about it), which I think helps with anxiety about losing people…

I’m really sorry about your grandpa, Rabbit. I noticed nobody else mentioned that. *hugs* I lost my grandma (on my father’s side) when I was 5 and I don’t really remember it much…she died of liver failure, and earlier she’d had a stroke but was the first person to walk after having one (this is way back in the early 80s), but yeah. She was an alcoholic so her liver was ruined. My grandpa on my mother’s side died when I was 17. That was really hard. Apart from my grandma when I was 5, I hadn’t really had anyone I loved die yet. I grew up a bit that day I think. My other grandpa died when I was 19…my other grandma died when I was 22. That was really hard also. She’d had a stroke 3 years earlier and we thought we’d lost her then, but she recovered but couldn’t speak properly or walk or do most things, so she had to go into a home. Very sad time. Then my 2 cats died within 6 months of each other (had to be put down)…the first one had cancer and we had to put him down 2 days before my 19th birthday. That was SO bad. I cried every night for a year around that time.

So basically, I also think my fear of my parents dying comes from pretty much everyone BUT my parents dying when I was between the age of 19 and 22. Ugh.

Anyway, Grace isn’t that old, Rabbit. She’s only 69 (soon!) That’s young these days. 60 is the new 50. 70 is the new 60. My partner’s mother is 70 and she’s amazingly young-seeming. She LOOKS a bit older than Grace, but otherwise she seems really young.

(I was watching an interview with Grace from earlier this year, and I actually don’t think she’s fat either. It’s really just the neck/chin part, and everything else isn’t really big at all)
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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby graceslick on Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:38 pm

Oh, and just one other thing. I find people (at least in my own experiences) don’t fear their OWN death anywhere near as much as they fear their loved ones’ deaths. So Grace talking about it may not be overly disturbing or concerning to her, even if it is for others. Sometimes my parents mention it (mainly with regard to their wills and stuff and what I’ll inherit), and I HATE hearing about it!! I’m SO uncomfortable with it. I can’t bear it. But they seem quite matter of fact about it. Bah! lol
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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby PsychedelicRabbit on Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:00 pm

Rabbit, maybe this is something similar to your thing about Grace. Maybe if you were actually near her and her friend or whatever, you’d not be quite so scared, because you could SEE she was ok instead of just having photos and occasional interviews and stuff…you know? You’d also maybe be able to tell her your feelings as opposed to having all of that intensity bottled up inside (well, it’s been expressed to us and also to your friends and also to Grace in the letter, but you know what I mean, right? You’re not TALKING with her and stuff about it), which I think helps with anxiety about losing people…


And you're right. I don't see her everyday like I do my parents or Grandmother. If I saw Grace standing here, I might get really relieved and not worry about it like I do. I do worry about her. I'm not around her, I can't talk to her on a one-to-one basis like I do my Grandmother or something, you know? So I do worry about her. I have written to her about how she is doing, but she didn't reply to that (I was messaged by another person who talks to Grace; she rarely does message people back, LOL) So other than that, I've got no idea.

I think Grace does use the sarcasm as a defense for not getting hurt. If she uses her sarcasm against her being 68, almost 69, then they won't bother her about her age. I think she'd rather bring up her age than someone else bringing it up. It makes her uncomfortable, I think.
In one interview recently, she was asked when her hair went white. She said about 6 or 7 years ago, and then continued on to say "but I'm just a fat old broad now, I don't have to look like anything in particular..." So, I think she does it to avoid feeling uncomfortable and awkward about it. Maybe part of her is afraid of death or old age?

Anyway, Grace isn’t that old, Rabbit. She’s only 69 (soon!) That’s young these days. 60 is the new 50. 70 is the new 60. My partner’s mother is 70 and she’s amazingly young-seeming. She LOOKS a bit older than Grace, but otherwise she seems really young.

(I was watching an interview with Grace from earlier this year, and I actually don’t think she’s fat either. It’s really just the neck/chin part, and everything else isn’t really big at all)


I don't think she's old either. I don't believe in age at all. I ignore it. The only thing I do is acknowledge birthdays, given that I've remember if there is one that day.
Grace is beautiful, and I don't even think her neck/chin is ugly or fat. I love all of her! The more, the merrier! I know that her neck/chin might make her very uncomfortable, and since it's so hard to hide your neck, she's kinda stuck with it. But I think she's beautiful, with or without that extra part of her. I love Grace, and whatever she looks like is fine by me. Because not only is she absolutely gorgeous at any age, but she's an amazing person. So it isn't just appearance I'm going by, it's the personality. I love her personality. :) Mmm. *is warm and fuzzy inside*

I’m really sorry about your grandpa, Rabbit. I noticed nobody else mentioned that. *hugs*


Thank you so much.
It still hasn't hit me yet. I still don't believe it's true. Even if I saw his body after he died (saw it twice, actually. Go me for seeing dead people) but it isn't true. Even though we got his ashes today, and even though it was in a black box, in a bag, sitting on the table in front of me - it isn't true.
Which is weird to think about.
My Grandfather was in a black box, in a bag, on the table.
:( That's the saddest sentence I've ever written. And I think possibly the weirdest, as well. :(
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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby graceslick on Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:08 pm

Re the chin/neck thing, I think that must be from the surgery she had a year or so ago…or maybe almost 2 years ago now.

She’s always had a bit of a chin (like me *groan* I want lipo but am too scared) but I saw the interview with Candice Bergin from 2006 and then interviews more recently, and it wasn’t really there in 2006. So yeah. She had to have a tracheotomy and stuff in that surgery…poor Grace. I’m so glad she’s ok.

The sentence about your grandfather isn’t weird. It is sad though. But you know…it’s also not that weird that you can’t handle accepting the truth that he’s gone, and especially that he’s in the box and stuff. Cause he’s not technically in a box in a bag and all that. His ashes are. But his spirit and the love and HE as a person, a spirit, a soul, and all the things that he has always been and always will be, are still here. You know? And because you’re so perceptive and empathetic and have psychic tendencies, maybe this makes it more difficult for you (than some other people) to accept death in the physical sense, because you feel strongly in the psychic/spiritual sense. Does that make sense?

My 2 cats are in urns at my parents’ house, and when I look at them, I feel love and fondness and if anything happened to those urns, I’d be distraught, but at the same time, they’re disconnected from how I really feel (which is what’s important)…I know the ashes are in there, but they’re not my CATS, you know?

On another related note, I don’t know if anyone ever completely accepts loved ones’ deaths. It’s just too much I think. You just sort of live everyday and each day gets a bit easier to live without seeing them, talking to them, having them around in the way you’ve always been used to…you know?
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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby PsychedelicRabbit on Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:20 pm

Re the chin/neck thing, I think that must be from the surgery she had a year or so ago…or maybe almost 2 years ago now.

She’s always had a bit of a chin (like me *groan* I want lipo but am too scared) but I saw the interview with Candice Bergin from 2006 and then interviews more recently, and it wasn’t really there in 2006. So yeah. She had to have a tracheotomy and stuff in that surgery…poor Grace. I’m so glad she’s ok.


Can I see this interview with Candice Bergin? And any other interview I've never seen?

Anyway, the chin. What happened in the surgery? Why did they operate on her neck if the cancer dealt with her colons and things like that? Or does it have something to do with the neck as well?
Do you think it makes her uncomfortable, though? Or is it just something else she takes in stride and moves on?
I think she's beautiful. She needs to be told that more. I love her so much. Mmm.

I am glad she's OK. God, imagine if she went through that this year instead of 2006. I'd be a nervous WRECK. Oh my goddd, I wouldn't be able to cope. LMAO. It's sad, but it's so true.

You know? And because you’re so perceptive and empathetic and have psychic tendencies, maybe this makes it more difficult for you (than some other people) to accept death in the physical sense, because you feel strongly in the psychic/spiritual sense. Does that make sense?


You know. I never thought of it that way. I just thought I was either severely numb or that it hasn't hit me yet. And when it does hit me, it'll be near Christmas since that is a HUGE thing in my family on my Mom's side (it's my Mom's Dad that died). I just thought maybe I was numb and denying it to myself.
But I think you are right on that as well. I think since I do believe so strongly in an afterlife and in reincarnation, that I know he isn't gone forever. I know it. He is still here, he just isn't human form anymore. He is something air-like in our world. He is no longer a human that you can hug. He is always here in spirit, and he is still singing those silly songs he'd sing around the house and in the yard. Heh.

:)
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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby graceslick on Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:40 pm

Firstly, the interview is around somewhere…um…Youtube I think, but I could be wrong. I found it on a link somewhere on this forum. CD, can you help out with this one? You know the one with Candice Bergin interviewing Grace?

Secondly, Grace didn’t actually have cancer at all. She had extreme Diverticulitis that she didn’t notice until major problems started happening, and she had to go to hospital and they operated on the blocked diverticula, which are like, part of the colon, and then for some reason they had to operate again that same day, and then her lungs shut down, liver, heart…I’m not sure why. I’m not 100% sure why they had to do the tracheotomy, but maybe something to do with her lungs stopping. So she was put into an induced coma for 3 months or something (Grace said this. I’m not sure it’s right. I hope it wasn’t that long) and yeah…although I don’t know why having a tracheotomy done would make your neck become swollen, but who knows.

Thirdly, I think Grace definitely it not comfortable with the chin…she hasn’t been for quite some time. Probably long before she began mentioning it outwardly. She kinda takes it in her stride, any stuff that she doesn’t like. “Her stride” being dealing with things using sarcasm, self-deprecating humour, and amusing bluntness.

I didn’t hear about Grace’s health scare until last year, and was quite shocked to hear it was so serious. I didn’t really know much about her before last April, so…yeah. I think if I’d known and loved her back then like I do now, and it had happened, I’d have freaked out and been so scared and sad.

Lastly, yeah, any big and important changes or losses in your everyday life, like a loved one dying, are especially hard at special times like Christmas and stuff. I think of it as a roller coaster ride. You go through the horrible experience of death or loss, then everyday you have to go on and live with it, this different kind of life. You adjust, you know? And after a while, you become used to living/doing things like say, brushing your teeth, going out for dinner, seeing friends, laughing, etc, without that person being around or being in your thoughts as being around in the physical sense. And say, if nothing big happens (no special events) in a while, you sort of get better at living happily in this new and different way. And then when something special does happen, like a birthday or Christmas for example, all the original feelings come back and you deal again in a similar way to how you did when it first happened. So that’s the roller coaster part. You go down really fast and low at first, then come up and have a few dips and stuff, and then generally it stables out, but there’ll always be a dip once a year or so at special times…my partner’s dad died about 12 years ago, and every year around his birthday she gets sad still, and that was 12 years ago!!

It’s ok to feel however you do, as well. Guilt and stuff is pointless.
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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby graceslick on Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:25 am

Nah, those aren't nodes. You can't ever see them on the outside. Only internally, way down in your throat.

Thanks for finding that Candice Bergin/Grace interview, CD, on the other thread. Very much appreciated.
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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby PsychedelicRabbit on Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:31 am

graceslick wrote:Firstly, the interview is around somewhere…um…Youtube I think, but I could be wrong. I found it on a link somewhere on this forum. CD, can you help out with this one? You know the one with Candice Bergin interviewing Grace?


Ohh, I saw that! I meant like the entire interview.
And that other interview they show after the Candice one? Yeah, I'd looove to see that! I saw that it was almost a half hour long! Haha. The more Grace, the better. The happier I am. :S

Secondly, Grace didn’t actually have cancer at all. She had extreme Diverticulitis that she didn’t notice until major problems started happening, and she had to go to hospital and they operated on the blocked diverticula, which are like, part of the colon, and then for some reason they had to operate again that same day, and then her lungs shut down, liver, heart…I’m not sure why. I’m not 100% sure why they had to do the tracheotomy, but maybe something to do with her lungs stopping. So she was put into an induced coma for 3 months or something (Grace said this. I’m not sure it’s right. I hope it wasn’t that long) and yeah…although I don’t know why having a tracheotomy done would make your neck become swollen, but who knows.


I would've never eaten if she had to be put in a coma. God, and if that happened, I can only wish I'd have the ability to sit in that hospital room with her day and night. Just be with her constantly. I hope family and friends were there with her.
So, you say that her lungs, heart and liver shut down...what does that mean? That she was going to die? :( That worries me. I know she is still alive. But I'd like to see it first, see that she is OK. I know that there are pictures, but there aren't enough of them to me.

Thirdly, I think Grace definitely it not comfortable with the chin…she hasn’t been for quite some time. Probably long before she began mentioning it outwardly. She kinda takes it in her stride, any stuff that she doesn’t like. “Her stride” being dealing with things using sarcasm, self-deprecating humour, and amusing bluntness.


I know she's always been uncomfortable with her appearance, and I think the chin is her "tip of the iceberg" that just makes her really hate looking in the mirror. I have this idea that if Grace ever looks into a mirror, she spends quite some time there and just picks at everything she sees. I think her painting, and she's actually said this, is her way of stopping that and doing something else.
I promise, if I meet her or anything, to try to make her feel beautiful. How? I don't know. But I will try. I'd like to see her happy with her appearance for once. I just don't understand how someone so beautiful can think they are so...hideous? Ugly? I don't know what her words would be.
I actually love her neck. I'm not sure why. I can't explain why I feel the way I do. But she is beautiful, and I do love her neck as well.
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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby graceslick on Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:27 pm

That’s so nice…I feel the same way as you, like I love all of her, every part, and think (and have always thought) she’s beautiful, but I think for me, seeing as I’m older and supposedly “wiser” (not really, I still feel about 8 years old sometimes), and also because I tend to feel that I am ugly and have used words like “hideous” and “vomit-worthy” and “disgusting” and expressions like “the horrible spectre you see before you” when I had no make up on, and even with make up on, about 50-60% of the time I feel ugly. BUT see, at the same time I don’t take myself 100% seriously, so I don’t know…I say this stuff but it’s like water off my own back…I think it disturbs my partner more than it does me, but I also think that by now she knows me and so it doesn’t seem so harsh to her either anymore…does that make sense? Basically I’m saying these are the reasons why I probably don’t feel as strongly as you do about, if I were to be friends or whatever with Grace, making her feel beautiful about all the things she doesn’t like and stuff…I think I’m sort of more resigned to not really going overboard doing that sort of thing, because I doubt there’d be much of a point. To be honest, in my own opinion (of myself and my physical appearance anyway), I prefer my partner or friends to not FOCUS on things I dislike, even if it’s to say they’re beautiful. I just want them to focus on things I personally don’t find too embarrassing or ugly, and then just sort of…not IGNORE the things I do find ugly (like my chin, nose, legs, boobs, etc) but not make a special effort to focus on them, you know? My partner has said many times over the 7 years we’ve been together that she finds all of these things beautiful and cute, and so I know she feels this way, which is nice, but it doesn’t change the fact that I’ve got eyes and can still see my own self, and still think I’m not overly attractive.

I don’t know how severe Grace’s issues with her appearance are…have you heard of Body Dysmorphic Disorder? When people can’t see themselves as others see them and they generally see all these faults that don’t really exist, and they can’t help focusing on them relentlessly, and you know those people who have WAY too much plastic surgery and just look absolutely hideous? They often have BDD. Now, I’m definitely not saying Grace has this – I don’t think she actually does have it and now I don’t even know why I brought it up. Possibly in case anyone else had heard of it and thought she may have it and I wanted to say I don’t think she does. Lol *insane* Anyway, but I just think it’s part of her overall pattern. She is self-deprecating, funny, cynical and sarcastic, but I don’t know how much these things REALLY actually get to her deep down. Like, I say all this stuff about me and if you didn’t really know me well, you’d be quite disturbed but also find it funny how rude I am to myself, but it doesn’t really bother me…I think. I don’t even know, you know, if it does anymore, I’ve been like this for so long. Lol. I guess I haven’t gone out and got plastic surgery though, have I? (yet) Heheh.
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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby PsychedelicRabbit on Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:21 pm

I don't know that Grace has BDD, but it may be a borderline sort of case. I mean, in that interview from the 80's, she did say "Even when I was relatively good looking, I was STILL a character!" So I don't think she believes she is totally hideous, but I don't think her opinion on herself today is favorable. I think she'd be faster to say she was sexy in the 60's than any other decade. Why, I don't know. Because god that woman is gorgeous. In the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's. All decades. I haven't seen any pictures of her before the 60's really, so I have no room to judge that. But I'm sure she was absolutely beautiful.

I think Grace does preoccupy herself a bit much with old age and her appearance. It just comes off whenever she starts talking about herself in recent interviews. There are parts in interviews where I sense that vulnerable aspect of her personality. Of course, it's covered up by the sarcasm quickly, but it is there. I just sense that she is really not into her looks.

And maybe I shouldn't try to focus on Grace's insecurities that much. But it depends on what she wants. Anything she wants I'll do. If she doesn't want me to talk about it, that's fine. If she does want me to compliment her flaws, I'll do that too. I'm up for anything. I'd climb the tallest mountain and fly to the moon for her if she wanted me to. That sounds all sugary sweet, I know, but it is how I feel. I'd do anything for that woman; I love her soooo much. :D :)

What I'm saying is...She doesn't brighten up my day.
She brightens up my life.

I love how dramatic that is, by the way.
I also love that it's incredibly true.

Haha. I'm weird. In an incredibly cool, dorky way. :mrgreen:
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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby graceslick on Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:16 pm

Do you ever get like, so overwhelmed by your feelings for Grace that you cry cause you’re not able to be with her? I have done this. *lame* lol
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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby PsychedelicRabbit on Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:28 pm

I do cry over her, but it isn't because I can't be with her. I don't think about that. You've got no idea what'll happen in the future. Just let things ride out and see what'll happen. It could be amazing. :)

But yes. I do get so overwhelmed from my love for her that I cry.

I never understood why love can make you cry. But it does. And oh man, it's so beautiful. Love is beautiful. :)
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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby Susan Butcher on Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:45 pm

It's usual for women to be overly critical of their own appearance. It's got a lot to with advertising. If you're feeling a bit depressed for some reason, it can make the dissatisfaction worse. Just be aware that other people may not share your negative view of yourself.

Yours, Susan "Dear Abby" Butcher.

I'm not sad that I can't be with Grace, though it would be nice to meet her someday. My subconscious mind has her pegged as a distant mother-figure, anyway. One that I love, I might add, but still distant. Liable to pop up like the Cheshire Cat, and disappear just as suddenly.
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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby PsychedelicRabbit on Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:02 pm

I just don't understand how someone so beautiful can be so critical of themself.
But I don't view myself as beautiful either. I mean, other people do (they tell me so, occasionally)...but I don't see it personally. So it's more of a personal opinion, since you see yourself constantly. You're obviously with yourself every minute of the day. So you have worse judgement of yourself because of that reason.

But Grace is beautiful.
I'm writing a love story and one of the main characters is her.
:)
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Re: Defending My Grace Obsession

Postby Susan Butcher on Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:56 am

You're always with yourself, but unless you decide to spend time looking in a mirror you see more of other people. If they say you look good, why shouldn't you believe them?
Last edited by Susan Butcher on Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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